It feels like there’s been a recent spate of discussion in RPG circles about the role of incentives (usually just referring to experience points, or XP). I would like to contribute by try to describe the role of XP is in modern tabletop RPG design, using Blades in the Dark as an example.
I like this survey of XP and it’s uses, but I will say my personal biggest criticism with it is that I have found it often doesn’t actually work as an incentive. My D&D players don’t fight the dragon to grind out a level up, they do it to save the town. And my Blades players regularly forget what their end of session XP triggers are.
That doesn’t make it bad necessarily! It’s a great excuse to have that cool end of session procedure, and your point about pacing advancement is great. And of course I know many people who’ve had different experiences than me with XP and incentives. But wanted to throw that out there.
Absolutely. I think when you actually play games with xp as incentives, it's very clear to what extent they affect play and the answer is usually "only a little". In my games, I think the "XP for Desperate Actions" does work as an incentive, especially for newer players. But as more time passes, it has less and less of an effect on the game and I think that's perfectly good part of the design,
Yeah! I don't know if you read my post on XP a couple months ago, but I made the argument that desperate XP works as an incentive because it's right there as a carrot that you will immediately get to eat while end of session XP doesn't work as an incentive because the separation of time makes it harder to mentally connect your actions to the reward in the moment. I think if you want people to be incentivized by XP, you gotta give it to them immediately, and you gotta give it to them when they make a choice not based on the results of that choice (i.e. XP on failure doesn't incentivize much imo).
I have never had any real problem with XP and character advancement either as a player or a creator. It always seemed to me a way to reflect the fact that you like to think that the more practiced you are at something, the better you become at it. It is also a typical aspect of heroic narrative that the hero's development requires technical growth as well as emotional and spiritual growth (Luke mastering The Force being only a more recent example). It's not a perfect mechanic, but it is an intuitive one.
Good Stuff on a very heated topic! 💪🏾 I'm a huge fan of points 1 and 2, and I've got no squabble with #3. Sometimes in games we just like to see the score.
I would argue that as long as players value XP, they are a legitimate tool of the game designer to point at a certain theme of gameplay. It is the dangling carrot that reinforces a style, the unseen hand that pivots the game.
I'm not quite sure the reason for the arguments about this, but maybe it's because I don't think XP in an incentive form should matter all that much. Most of these stats, from my perspective, are tools for altering gameplay and not story elements so why should they matter to the characters more than the extent they do? Their motivations should be to save the town or defeat the ogre, not to get points. That was fine for the battle simulation board games that birthed RPGs but RPGs themselves don't require it. The reasons listed here are enough to keep XP around (or perhaps some other mechanic more cloaked in fiction) to help players know they did a good job, better create good memories of the session, and gain in ability. Who said it had to be the primary thing they cared about? I don't want players talking about numbers any more than they have to.
I like this survey of XP and it’s uses, but I will say my personal biggest criticism with it is that I have found it often doesn’t actually work as an incentive. My D&D players don’t fight the dragon to grind out a level up, they do it to save the town. And my Blades players regularly forget what their end of session XP triggers are.
That doesn’t make it bad necessarily! It’s a great excuse to have that cool end of session procedure, and your point about pacing advancement is great. And of course I know many people who’ve had different experiences than me with XP and incentives. But wanted to throw that out there.
Absolutely. I think when you actually play games with xp as incentives, it's very clear to what extent they affect play and the answer is usually "only a little". In my games, I think the "XP for Desperate Actions" does work as an incentive, especially for newer players. But as more time passes, it has less and less of an effect on the game and I think that's perfectly good part of the design,
Yeah! I don't know if you read my post on XP a couple months ago, but I made the argument that desperate XP works as an incentive because it's right there as a carrot that you will immediately get to eat while end of session XP doesn't work as an incentive because the separation of time makes it harder to mentally connect your actions to the reward in the moment. I think if you want people to be incentivized by XP, you gotta give it to them immediately, and you gotta give it to them when they make a choice not based on the results of that choice (i.e. XP on failure doesn't incentivize much imo).
Agreed on all counts!
I have never had any real problem with XP and character advancement either as a player or a creator. It always seemed to me a way to reflect the fact that you like to think that the more practiced you are at something, the better you become at it. It is also a typical aspect of heroic narrative that the hero's development requires technical growth as well as emotional and spiritual growth (Luke mastering The Force being only a more recent example). It's not a perfect mechanic, but it is an intuitive one.
I think most people would agree. Advancement is most apt for a heroic, power fantasy kind of story!
Good Stuff on a very heated topic! 💪🏾 I'm a huge fan of points 1 and 2, and I've got no squabble with #3. Sometimes in games we just like to see the score.
Nice! I love "Sometimes in games we just like to see the score".
I would argue that as long as players value XP, they are a legitimate tool of the game designer to point at a certain theme of gameplay. It is the dangling carrot that reinforces a style, the unseen hand that pivots the game.
I'm not quite sure the reason for the arguments about this, but maybe it's because I don't think XP in an incentive form should matter all that much. Most of these stats, from my perspective, are tools for altering gameplay and not story elements so why should they matter to the characters more than the extent they do? Their motivations should be to save the town or defeat the ogre, not to get points. That was fine for the battle simulation board games that birthed RPGs but RPGs themselves don't require it. The reasons listed here are enough to keep XP around (or perhaps some other mechanic more cloaked in fiction) to help players know they did a good job, better create good memories of the session, and gain in ability. Who said it had to be the primary thing they cared about? I don't want players talking about numbers any more than they have to.
Cool thoughts on using XP for advancement, recapping, pacing & incentivizing! ⚔